Eine Bilderstrecke zum Voynich-Manuskript

Kommentare (11)

1. #1 Laconia

   20. November 2014

   Bei all dem Wind, der aktuell um dieses Werk gemacht wird, kann man nur hoffen, dass irgendwer mal auf die Idee kommt, Wissenschaftler zu fragen, die sich mit medizinischen bzw. botanischen Handschriften aus dem späten Mittelalter auskennen. Oder hat man Angst vor einer solchen Expertise?

2. #2 andreas

   30. November 2014

   Hallo Herr Schmeh, zufällig bin ich in der aktuellen GEO auf einen Artikel zum o. g. Manuskript und beim weiteren Recherchieren auf Ihren Eintrag gestoßen und habe in einem Blog gefunden, dass Ulrich Berger Sie schon einmal darauf hingewiesen hat, dass es sich hier um die Neosprache eines schizophren Erkrankten handeln könnte. Dies war auch meine spontane Idee, als ich die Manuskriptseite zum ersten Mal gesehen habe, bevor ich den Artikel las. Auf der m. E. recht profunden web-site voynich-manuskript.de haben sich meine Vermutungen erhärtet; alles passt zur Psychopathologie einer speziellen Form dieser Erkrankung und den damit verbundenen formalen Denkstörungen. Ebenso ist die Art der Illustrationen und die Struktur des gesamten Manuskriptes recht typisch dafür. (Sollten sie weitere Infos, Literaturhinweise etc. dazu wünschen, können sie gerne Kontakt aufnehmen.)

3. #3 Ruth Krämer-Klink

   Frankfurt

   8. März 2015

   Wer weiß etwas über diese Nachricht, die angeblich in einem Bucheinband steckte?
   https://www.allmystery.de/themen/uh74412

   • #4 Klaus Schmeh

     9. März 2015

     Das ist eine Nachricht im Voynich-Alphabet. Wenn der Zettel tatsächlich in einem alten Buch steckte und selbst alt ist, wäre das eine Sensation. es sieht mir aber sehr nach einer Fälschung aus.

4. #5 Kent Ramliden

   10. März 2015

   Falsch indeed it seems to me. This is just a theory but it looks to me like it is written in Latin using EVA values for the Voynichese? If correct, that is pretty modern (or EVA values very spot on!)

   Using EVA I get lots of word endings “-um” (six or so), a few others em, am, and though it is tough with the handwriting I would hazard a guess that it starts “invenerunt”, then from next to last word in first line it reads “et diu absconditum reliquiarum..”, later start line three ‘in sepulcro quod”.

   Possibly deals with having found long hidden relics in a sepulchre? Latin not my strength, I am afraid.

   Would be interested in others thoughts/KR

5. #6 Kent Ramliden

   10. März 2015

   A brief update. Looks like this is on the right track. The “Voynich type note” on Ruth Krämer-Klink’s link is written with the Voynich EVA values and the text appears drawn from Christoph Muller’s (1651-1715) “Historia Canoniae Sand-Hippolytanae” which was published later in the 1700s.

   The “Voynich” note text fragments appear in this book. For example the start “Inveniunt (autem) pretiosum et diu absconditum reliquiarum thesaurum” is a direct quote as is the end “duorum corporum reperta sunt ossa”.

6. #7 Kent Ramliden

   12. März 2015

   @Ruth Krämer-Klink (or others)

   Is anything known about where this apparently fake Voynich-style note appeared? Who found it? etc.

7. #8 Ruth Krämer-Klink

   Frankfurt

   12. März 2015

   Im Internet gibt es noch einen zweiten Hinweis, der aber auch nicht aufschlußreicher ist:
   https://www.abalona.ch/raetsel/pergament.htm

8. #9 Kent Ramliden

   12. März 2015

   Thank you! Shall be interesting to see where this might lead.
   Meanwhile I can present a full decryption of the pergament note, as follows by line numbers:

   1. Invenerunt autem pretiosum et diu
   2 absconditum reliquiarum thesaurum nam
   3. in sepulcro quod erat in fornice illo
   4. duorum corporum reperta sunt ossa,

   The note is written using the well known Voynich EVA values which were developed by Rene Zanbergen and Gabriel Landini not so long ago. The text itself appears to be quite old. See for example this link where the text can be found in item 5) ending at ossa.

   https://www.univie.ac.at/latein/texte/texte.htm

   As so often, the cryptanalysis is the easy part, now we have the interesting mystery as to why this fake was made and by who./KR

9. #10 Kent Ramliden

   14. März 2015

   @Ruth Krämer-Klink
   This link you provided was a very good lead. It turns out the owner of this website at one point owned the book in which the note was found. He no longer does but he may be able to tell you more if you have further interest. He told me a Swiss book collector formerly owned the book and he believes a collector in France now has the book, which he said concerns botanical matters. You can reach him via the Guestbook feature of his website if you want to learn more about the book or the note origin.

   Regarding the text itself I found online references to two historical works which, with minor variations, contain lines 1,2 and 4 of the pergament note in Latin plain text: Page 745 of “Scriptores rerum austriacarum” by Hieronymus Pez and page 73 of “Historia canonae Sand-Hippolytanae” by Christoffe Muller (Albert de Maderna). Both works appear to be from the 1700s and the texts connected with St. Hyppolite is some way.

   These two texts differ substantially from the University of Vienna online text from 2003(the actual text underlying the encrypted note which I shared in a prior note) with respect to line 3. Here the university text has removed “visu pulcherrima et odoratu suavissima” and substituted “in sepulcro quod erat fornice illo”. Google Translate tells me this makes a big difference!

   From the use of Voynichese text values pretty much identical to Zandbergen and Landini’s EVA values we can already suspect the note is pretty recent, the Vienna text may be an indication the note was written after 2003.

   I hope that the information is of use to you and wish you well with any further enquiries. If I can help further please let me know.

10. #11 Alexander Gipp

    Deutschland

    17. Juli 2017

    I wonder if anyone has recognized the similarity between the plant on page Nr. 34 with a medicinal genealogical table showing the carriers of certain genes, yet.

    It maybe seem a bit unlikely for a book from the middleages to contain such information but combined with the roots looking like chromosomes on page 43 and the odd clusters of cells on page 85 there might be a basis for such an adventurous interpretation…